[minervacirc] [MinervaCats] FW: FW: {Disarmed} RE: A Wonderfully Weird Wonder Woman suggestion

Lynn Uhlman lynn.uhlman at maineinfonet.org
Fri Sep 22 08:50:14 EDT 2017


Hi,

I'm coming late to this discussion, but was hoping to bring it back around
to the circulation issue rather than cataloging. From a circulation
perspective, it seems to me that it would be much easier to transfer the
holds to a similar record since the purpose is to expedite the material to
the patron in the most accurate and speedy manner possible. I've added the
other Minerva listservs as not everyone is on the cataloging one to ensure
that all appropriate parties are able to add to this discussion.

There is a way to transfer holds in a batch to another record, which
entails cataloging or circulation staff to have the correct permissions.
Scoped logins will only be able to move their own library holds, while
unscoped logins will be able to move any holds. This suggestion or others
can be  discussed at the Circulation Round Table next Friday 9/29 to
discuss the best process to deal with the situation.

Since I can't attach the directions with screenshots to a listserv post,
please view the directions I quickly created to outline the process...your
Support Center email and password will be needed to view them.
https://maineinfonet.freshdesk.com/support/solutions/articles/1000254825-transferring-a-batch-of-holds-from-one-bib-to-another

I believe from a systems perspective this suggestion would deal with the
problem at hand in a more direct manner than altering cataloging procedures
as a workaround to a circulation issue.

Respectfully,
Lynn

________________________________
*Lynn A. Uhlman*
*Systems Training and Support Librarian*

*Maine InfoNet*
5784 York Village, Suite 58
Orono, Maine 04469-5784
(207)581-3088
(207)581-3095 (fax)
Email: lynn.uhlman at maineinfonet.org <mail+to:lynn.uhlman at maineinfonet.org>

On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 4:21 PM, Josh Tiffany <jtiffany at gray.lib.me.us>
wrote:

> Hey all,
>
>
>
> Thanks to everyone for taking the time to read, consider, and respond.
>
>
>
> There are two separate but related matters that I’m picking at, and I hope
> you bear with more for a moment while I attempt to illustrate the potential
> issues.  In my experience, most on-order records are imported as a single
> disc version, which generally points to a Rental edition or some other
> stripped down version.  Once this is the system, our users que up for the
> item.  If the film is released as a 2-disc DVD edition, and a Blu-ray + DVD
> combo pack, those libraries that chose to split the combo pack will get the
> mass of holds that people have placed.  Libraries that purchase the regular
> retail 2-disc edition will enter their items into the system with no
> holds.  A patron who adds her name to the newly entered 2-disc edition will
> be first in line, ahead of people who have been waiting for weeks or months
> for the item.
>
>
>
> This can also to lead to long lists existing for very similar items that
> are available on a different bib-record.  If you take a look at “Kong:
> Skull Island”, you can see the point I’m making.  The 2-disc version of the
> film has 14 holds on 5 copies (4 of you minus out the ON ORDER item), while
> the single disc version has 13 holds on 8 copies (7 if you pull out the
> non-requestable rental collection item) – which translates to about a
> month’s difference in wait time between the two lists.  In the past, there
> have been examples with many more libraries going for the 2-disc DVD
> edition while leaving a LOOOONG line for the single disc item since that
> was the pre-order bib-record.  It could even easily be a situation where a
> patron puts in a request on an on order item and has to wait months for it
> to arrive, while their home library picked up the 2-disc edition so their
> hold is not fulfilled.
>
>
>
> With that said, if the on-order records were suppressed until the item was
> in hand, it would go a long way towards making the playing field much more
> level.  If it were possible to have some collaboration and coordination
> between those libraries that are purchasing the
> hot-new-best-thing-ever-this-week so that the single disc and double disc
> records could be added at about the same time, that would be even more
> ideal.
>
>
>
> My suggestion for the single entry for various editions and re-catalog
> once the item clears the hold list (which, after the feedback and responses
> I saw, I humbly and politely withdraw) was a solution for after the problem
> has arisen.  Repression of the on-order items plus possible coordination
> among purchasing libraries is a solution before the problem arises.  In the
> end, I’m interested in getting people what they want as quickly as
> possible, as well as having items return to their home library shelves for
> browsing in a timely manner.
>
>
>
> And by the by, at Gray we print out monthly checklists of new A/V and
> books so patrons can hand in their forms to be put on hold once the items
> become available.  For us, it works.
>
>
>
> So that’s my two cents.  Again, I thank everyone who has read, pondered,
> and silently or publically responded to my modest proposal.
>
>
>
> And if I have some people’s attention, is there any Library out there in
> possession of the 2-disc regular DVD edition of “Wonder Woman”?  Just
> curious.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
> Josh
>
>
>
> Joshua Tiffany, MLIS
>
> Director – Gray Public Library
>
> (207) 657-4110
>
> jtiffany at gray.lib.me.us
>
>
>
> *“*A library implies an act of faith.”– Victor Hugo
> ------------------------------
>
> This electronic mail message and any attachments hereto, as well as any
> electronic mail message(s) that may be sent in response to it, may be
> considered public records, and may therefore be subject to public record
> requests for review and copying under Maine's Right to Know Law (Title 1,
> 401-521 of the Maine Revised Statutes).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Carin Dunay [mailto:cdunay at smccme.edu]
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 21, 2017 3:39 PM
> *To:* Deborah Tomaras
> *Cc:* Marie Stickney; Josh Tiffany; minervacats at informe.org
>
> *Subject:* Re: [MinervaCats] FW: FW: {Disarmed} RE: A Wonderfully Weird
> Wonder Woman suggestion
>
>
>
> I wonder if using the acquisitions module to create order records would
> alleviate some of this problem. That way, I believe, holds could only be
> made towards the bib and not towards a particular item.
>
>
>
> Just another suggestion. (We use the acquisitions module, if it is even
> still called that, here at SMCC.)
>
>
>
> -Carin
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 2:40 PM, Deborah Tomaras <
> dtomaras at patten.lib.me.us> wrote:
>
> Thanks for chiming in, Marie. It’s a tough balance, though I like what
> Auburn is doing (still notifying patrons of upcoming movies, but not
> placing holds until items are in hand). I wonder if some patrons might push
> back against print-only notifications, though.
>
>
>
> Josh—if you’re still listening—perhaps you could mention some more
> circ/ILL-specific issues we should be aware of while trying to figure this
> out? (I think you’re on the Circ Standards Committee, so might hear
> complaints that way, yes?) Thanks in advance!
>
>
>
> It’d be great to get some consensus on this, moving forward. :}
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> Deborah
>
>
>
> *From:* minervacats-bounces at informe.org [mailto:minervacats-bounces@
> informe.org] *On Behalf Of *Marie Stickney
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 21, 2017 2:21 PM
> *Cc:* minervacats at informe.org
> *Subject:* Re: [MinervaCats] FW: FW: {Disarmed} RE: A Wonderfully Weird
> Wonder Woman suggestion
>
>
>
> Hi Everyone!
>
> I make on-order records for DVD's, on behalf of our librarian who does the
> DVD ordering for our library.  As I understand it, she needs it for an
> automated newsletter she puts out, so that patrons can find the records in
> the catalog when they get a list of new releases.  We also have a lot of
> early-bird patrons who like to get on the list early for high-demand movies.
>
>
>
> That said, on the cataloging side, I think suppressing records until we
> have the items in hand is easiest.  I work from really bare-bones order
> sheets in creating them, because it's all I've got so far in
> advance--they're not great or detailed bibs.
>
> If we can find a workaround for the circ and ILL side of things, that
> would be great.  I think the strategy Suzanne shared is a good one.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Marie
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 2:12 PM, Deborah Tomaras <
> dtomaras at patten.lib.me.us> wrote:
>
> Another pro-suppression vote. (Thanks for chiming in, Peggy!)
>
>
>
> It’d be helpful to know perhaps who out there is making on-order records
> now for a/v items, and why (needed for acquisitions purposes, etc.). Then
> we can work out a way to not inconvenience them too much, but still help
> circ folks and patrons.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> Deborah
>
>
>
> *From:* Peggy Malley [mailto:peggy.malley at ludden.lib.me.us]
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 21, 2017 1:01 PM
> *To:* 'Deborah Tomaras' <dtomaras at patten.lib.me.us>
> *Subject:* RE: [MinervaCats] FW: {Disarmed} RE: A Wonderfully Weird
> Wonder Woman suggestion
>
>
>
> I agree with Sandra.
>
>
>
>
>
> Peggy Malley
>
> Library Director
>
> Ludden Memorial Library
>
> P.O. Box 805
>
> Dixfield, ME 04224
>
> (207) 562-8838
>
> peggy.malley at ludden.lib.me.us
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* minervacats-bounces at informe.org [mailto:minervacats-bounces@
> informe.org <minervacats-bounces at informe.org>] *On Behalf Of *Deborah
> Tomaras
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 21, 2017 12:21 PM
> *To:* minervacats at informe.org
> *Subject:* [MinervaCats] FW: {Disarmed} RE: A Wonderfully Weird Wonder
> Woman suggestion
>
>
>
> Here’s another vote in favor of suppressing on-order records for a/v
> items, from Sandra Abbott-Stout at Unity (see below, with her kind
> permission to forward to the list!).
>
>
>
> Any other ideas about how we might help out the circ/reference folks with
> the holds issue? Is there a way, for example, that we could somehow
> coordinate the cataloging of different formats between us (inter-library
> heads-up), so that different bib records appear in the catalog closer
> together, so patrons might spread the holds around? Or other creative
> solutions? :}
>
>
>
> Keep the ideas coming! I’m sure we can work this out.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> Deborah
>
>
>
> *From:* Sandra Abbott-Stout [mailto:sstout at unity.edu <sstout at unity.edu>]
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 21, 2017 10:56 AM
> *To:* Deborah Tomaras <dtomaras at patten.lib.me.us>
> *Subject:* {Disarmed} RE: [MinervaCats] A Wonderfully Weird Wonder Woman
> suggestion
>
>
>
> Suppressing the on-order record makes a lot of sense to me.  Personally, I
> don’t have time to catalog it on the incorrect record [and it just seems
> wrong] and then try to remember to re-catalog it some months later.
>
>
>
> Sandra
>
>
>
> Sandra Abbott-Stout
>
> Reference/Instruction Librarian
>
> Dorothy Webb Quimby Library
>
> Unity College
>
> Unity, ME 04988
>
>
>
> 207-509-7234 <(207)%20509-7234> [phone]
>
> 207-512-1218 <(207)%20512-1218> [fax]
>
>
>
> *From:* minervacats-bounces at informe.org [mailto:minervacats-bounces@
> informe.org <minervacats-bounces at informe.org>] *On Behalf Of *Deborah
> Tomaras
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 21, 2017 9:47 AM
> *To:* 'Josh Tiffany' <jtiffany at gray.lib.me.us>;
> minervacats at lists.maine.gov
> *Subject:* Re: [MinervaCats] A Wonderfully Weird Wonder Woman suggestion
>
>
>
> Josh and all:
>
>
>
> The point appears to be moot now, since Wonder Woman now has Blu-Ray and
> single DVD records in the catalog.
>
>
>
> But I wonder if for the future, since this issue comes up a lot, a better
> answer is to NOT make on-order records for movies. Or, if they have to be
> made for acquisitions purposes, to suppress them from public view until the
> items actually come in. Since, as Josh points out, movies often come in
> multiple formats and combinations and therefore get multiple bib records in
> the catalog (unlike the books we make on-order records for), perhaps we are
> doing patrons a disservice by creating on-order records that will get piles
> of holds when other bib records for alternate formats will appear later and
> perhaps not be found (and the holds not spread around in an equitable
> manner). I think unless we stop making on-order records for movies, this
> problem of holds on a single bib record likely won’t be resolved.
>
>
>
> It’s something to consider, at least, since I don’t think it’s viable to
> put all dissimilar copies of movies on a single generic bib
> record--cataloging exists to correctly describe items for patrons, so
> fudging all copies together doesn’t sit right with me. And there is likely
> to be at least one patron that REALLY wants a distinct copy, and not just
> to watch the movie. And also, with time pressures on tech services staff,
> many of which are part-time and/or work at service desks, cataloging a
> single item multiple times isn’t really feasible.
>
>
>
> What do people think?
>
> Best,
>
>
>
> <http://www.patten.lib.me.us/>[image: Patten Free Library]
> <http://www.patten.lib.me.us/> <http://www.patten.lib.me.us/>*Deborah
> Tomaras | Head of Technical Services*
> 207.443.5141 x14 | *MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt
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>
> *From:* minervacats-bounces at informe.org [mailto:minervacats-bounces@
> informe.org <minervacats-bounces at informe.org>] *On Behalf Of *Josh Tiffany
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 20, 2017 1:14 PM
> *To:* minervacats at lists.maine.gov
> *Subject:* [MinervaCats] A Wonderfully Weird Wonder Woman suggestion
>
>
>
> Greetings again,
>
>
>
> In regards to the just released “Wonder Woman” (2017) release, I’m going
> to suggest something a wee bit heretical in the cataloging universe.
>
>
>
> As it stands now, a pre-order record was put in the system in mid-August.
> At this point, there are almost 70 people lined up waiting for their chance
> to check out the film.  However, there are multiple releases and editions
> of the regular DVD copy (2-disc edition, single disc split from the Blu-ray
> / DVD combo pack, and a rental edition are known at this point… but there
> may be more).
>
>
>
> To best suit the needs of the patrons, plus to reduce the confusion around
> this item (there are already three copies of the Wonder Woman animated
> feature released in 2017, one of which suddenly had more than a dozen holds
> placed on it in the last three weeks), I’m suggesting that, for the time
> being, all DVD copies of the Patty Jenkins 2017 film “Wonder Woman” be
> placed on the same record that already exists and has 68 holds.  Included
> in this record would be the note “May include bonus DVD”.  Once the
> groundswell of interest in the item has been satisfied, libraries can
> re-catalog the item based on the exact data.
>
>
>
> The hope is that by combining the various items, the users will be able to
> get copies faster and won’t have to play the guessing game of which version
> of the film may arrive faster.  Additionally, patrons who put in request on
> the pre-pub item won’t be left waiting if their home library picks up a
> 2-disc copy.  It is my guess and experience that the list of people who
> have already requested the movie wouldn’t care if it is the 2-disc, single
> disc, rental edition, to Taiwanese bootleg copy – they just want to see
> it.
>
>
>
> I’m hoping this suggestion is worth a moment of consideration.
>
>
>
> Thanks ,
>
>
>
> Josh
>
>
>
> Joshua Tiffany, MLIS
>
> Director – Gray Public Library
>
> (207) 657-4110
>
> jtiffany at gray.lib.me.us
>
>
>
> *“*A library implies an act of faith.”– Victor Hugo
> ------------------------------
>
> This electronic mail message and any attachments hereto, as well as any
> electronic mail message(s) that may be sent in response to it, may be
> considered public records, and may therefore be subject to public record
> requests for review and copying under Maine's Right to Know Law (Title 1,
> 401-521 of the Maine Revised Statutes).
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
> --
>
> Marie Stickney
>
> Technical Services Librarian
>
> Camden Public Library
>
> 55 Main ST
>
> Camden, ME 04843
>
>
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>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Carin Dunay
> Head, Access & Collection Services, Library
> Southern Maine Community College
> 2 Fort Road
> South Portland, Maine 04106
> Phone: 207-741-5784 <(207)%20741-5784>
>
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