[minervacirc] [MinervaCats] FW: FW: {Disarmed} RE: A Wonderfully Weird Wonder Woman suggestion

Leslie Mortimer lmortimer at patten.lib.me.us
Mon Sep 25 13:24:03 EDT 2017


I vote for suppressing On Order records for DVDs.

Leslie

 

 

From: minervacirc-bounces at informe.org [mailto:minervacirc-bounces at informe.org] On Behalf Of Karen Jones
Sent: Monday, September 25, 2017 10:11 AM
To: Lynn Uhlman <lynn.uhlman at maineinfonet.org>; Minerva Cats <minervacats at lists.maine.gov>; Minerva-L <MINERVA-L at lists.maine.edu>; Minerva Circ <minervacirc at lists.maine.gov>
Subject: Re: [minervacirc] [MinervaCats] FW: FW: {Disarmed} RE: A Wonderfully Weird Wonder Woman suggestion

 

Hi Everyone,

 

Since there are so many variables with A-V records, I would like to see these On Order records suppressed until actual items come in and someone can edit the bib records properly.  

 

We here at Lewiston Public want to take care of our own holds and are not in favor of batch transferring.  

 

Thanks.

 

Karen

 

 

 

Karen Jones, Technical Services Librarian

Lewiston Public Library

200 Lisbon St., Lewiston, ME  04240

207.513.3004 x3511

kjones at lewistonmaine.gov <mailto:kjones at lewistonmaine.gov> 

 

 

 

From: minervacirc-bounces at informe.org <mailto:minervacirc-bounces at informe.org>  [mailto:minervacirc-bounces at informe.org] On Behalf Of Lynn Uhlman
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2017 8:50 AM
To: Minerva Cats; Minerva-L; Minerva Circ
Subject: Re: [minervacirc] [MinervaCats] FW: FW: {Disarmed} RE: A Wonderfully Weird Wonder Woman suggestion

 

Hi, 

 

I'm coming late to this discussion, but was hoping to bring it back around to the circulation issue rather than cataloging. From a circulation perspective, it seems to me that it would be much easier to transfer the holds to a similar record since the purpose is to expedite the material to the patron in the most accurate and speedy manner possible. I've added the other Minerva listservs as not everyone is on the cataloging one to ensure that all appropriate parties are able to add to this discussion.

 

There is a way to transfer holds in a batch to another record, which entails cataloging or circulation staff to have the correct permissions. Scoped logins will only be able to move their own library holds, while unscoped logins will be able to move any holds. This suggestion or others can be  discussed at the Circulation Round Table next Friday 9/29 to discuss the best process to deal with the situation.

 

Since I can't attach the directions with screenshots to a listserv post, please view the directions I quickly created to outline the process...your Support Center email and password will be needed to view them.

https://maineinfonet.freshdesk.com/support/solutions/articles/1000254825-transferring-a-batch-of-holds-from-one-bib-to-another

 

I believe from a systems perspective this suggestion would deal with the problem at hand in a more direct manner than altering cataloging procedures as a workaround to a circulation issue.

 

Respectfully,

Lynn




________________________________

Lynn A. Uhlman

Systems Training and Support Librarian

 

Maine InfoNet

5784 York Village, Suite 58

Orono, Maine 04469-5784

(207)581-3088

(207)581-3095 (fax)

Email:  <mailto:mail+to:lynn.uhlman at maineinfonet.org> lynn.uhlman at maineinfonet.org

 

On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 4:21 PM, Josh Tiffany <jtiffany at gray.lib.me.us <mailto:jtiffany at gray.lib.me.us> > wrote:

Hey all,

 

Thanks to everyone for taking the time to read, consider, and respond.

 

There are two separate but related matters that I’m picking at, and I hope you bear with more for a moment while I attempt to illustrate the potential issues.  In my experience, most on-order records are imported as a single disc version, which generally points to a Rental edition or some other stripped down version.  Once this is the system, our users que up for the item.  If the film is released as a 2-disc DVD edition, and a Blu-ray + DVD combo pack, those libraries that chose to split the combo pack will get the mass of holds that people have placed.  Libraries that purchase the regular retail 2-disc edition will enter their items into the system with no holds.  A patron who adds her name to the newly entered 2-disc edition will be first in line, ahead of people who have been waiting for weeks or months for the item.

 

This can also to lead to long lists existing for very similar items that are available on a different bib-record.  If you take a look at “Kong: Skull Island”, you can see the point I’m making.  The 2-disc version of the film has 14 holds on 5 copies (4 of you minus out the ON ORDER item), while the single disc version has 13 holds on 8 copies (7 if you pull out the non-requestable rental collection item) – which translates to about a month’s difference in wait time between the two lists.  In the past, there have been examples with many more libraries going for the 2-disc DVD edition while leaving a LOOOONG line for the single disc item since that was the pre-order bib-record.  It could even easily be a situation where a patron puts in a request on an on order item and has to wait months for it to arrive, while their home library picked up the 2-disc edition so their hold is not fulfilled.

 

With that said, if the on-order records were suppressed until the item was in hand, it would go a long way towards making the playing field much more level.  If it were possible to have some collaboration and coordination between those libraries that are purchasing the hot-new-best-thing-ever-this-week so that the single disc and double disc records could be added at about the same time, that would be even more ideal.  

 

My suggestion for the single entry for various editions and re-catalog once the item clears the hold list (which, after the feedback and responses I saw, I humbly and politely withdraw) was a solution for after the problem has arisen.  Repression of the on-order items plus possible coordination among purchasing libraries is a solution before the problem arises.  In the end, I’m interested in getting people what they want as quickly as possible, as well as having items return to their home library shelves for browsing in a timely manner.  

 

And by the by, at Gray we print out monthly checklists of new A/V and books so patrons can hand in their forms to be put on hold once the items become available.  For us, it works.

 

So that’s my two cents.  Again, I thank everyone who has read, pondered, and silently or publically responded to my modest proposal.  

 

And if I have some people’s attention, is there any Library out there in possession of the 2-disc regular DVD edition of “Wonder Woman”?  Just curious.

 

Cheers,

 

Josh

 

Joshua Tiffany, MLIS

Director – Gray Public Library

(207) 657-4110 <tel:(207)%20657-4110> 

jtiffany at gray.lib.me.us <mailto:jtiffany at gray.lib.me.us> 

 

“A library implies an act of faith.”– Victor Hugo

  _____  

This electronic mail message and any attachments hereto, as well as any electronic mail message(s) that may be sent in response to it, may be considered public records, and may therefore be subject to public record requests for review and copying under Maine's Right to Know Law (Title 1, 401-521 of the Maine Revised Statutes).

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: Carin Dunay [mailto:cdunay at smccme.edu <mailto:cdunay at smccme.edu> ] 
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2017 3:39 PM
To: Deborah Tomaras
Cc: Marie Stickney; Josh Tiffany; minervacats at informe.org <mailto:minervacats at informe.org> 


Subject: Re: [MinervaCats] FW: FW: {Disarmed} RE: A Wonderfully Weird Wonder Woman suggestion

 

I wonder if using the acquisitions module to create order records would alleviate some of this problem. That way, I believe, holds could only be made towards the bib and not towards a particular item.

 

Just another suggestion. (We use the acquisitions module, if it is even still called that, here at SMCC.)

 

-Carin

 

On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 2:40 PM, Deborah Tomaras <dtomaras at patten.lib.me.us <mailto:dtomaras at patten.lib.me.us> > wrote:

Thanks for chiming in, Marie. It’s a tough balance, though I like what Auburn is doing (still notifying patrons of upcoming movies, but not placing holds until items are in hand). I wonder if some patrons might push back against print-only notifications, though.

 

Josh—if you’re still listening—perhaps you could mention some more circ/ILL-specific issues we should be aware of while trying to figure this out? (I think you’re on the Circ Standards Committee, so might hear complaints that way, yes?) Thanks in advance!

 

It’d be great to get some consensus on this, moving forward. :}

 

Best,

Deborah

 

From: minervacats-bounces at informe.org <mailto:minervacats-bounces at informe.org>  [mailto:minervacats-bounces at informe.org <mailto:minervacats-bounces at informe.org> ] On Behalf Of Marie Stickney
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2017 2:21 PM
Cc: minervacats at informe.org <mailto:minervacats at informe.org> 
Subject: Re: [MinervaCats] FW: FW: {Disarmed} RE: A Wonderfully Weird Wonder Woman suggestion

 

Hi Everyone!

I make on-order records for DVD's, on behalf of our librarian who does the DVD ordering for our library.  As I understand it, she needs it for an automated newsletter she puts out, so that patrons can find the records in the catalog when they get a list of new releases.  We also have a lot of early-bird patrons who like to get on the list early for high-demand movies.

 

That said, on the cataloging side, I think suppressing records until we have the items in hand is easiest.  I work from really bare-bones order sheets in creating them, because it's all I've got so far in advance--they're not great or detailed bibs.

If we can find a workaround for the circ and ILL side of things, that would be great.  I think the strategy Suzanne shared is a good one.

 

Thanks,

Marie

 

On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 2:12 PM, Deborah Tomaras <dtomaras at patten.lib.me.us <mailto:dtomaras at patten.lib.me.us> > wrote:

Another pro-suppression vote. (Thanks for chiming in, Peggy!)

 

It’d be helpful to know perhaps who out there is making on-order records now for a/v items, and why (needed for acquisitions purposes, etc.). Then we can work out a way to not inconvenience them too much, but still help circ folks and patrons.

 

Best,

Deborah

 

From: Peggy Malley [mailto:peggy.malley at ludden.lib.me.us <mailto:peggy.malley at ludden.lib.me.us> ] 
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2017 1:01 PM
To: 'Deborah Tomaras' <dtomaras at patten.lib.me.us <mailto:dtomaras at patten.lib.me.us> >
Subject: RE: [MinervaCats] FW: {Disarmed} RE: A Wonderfully Weird Wonder Woman suggestion

 

I agree with Sandra.

 

 

Peggy Malley

Library Director

Ludden Memorial Library

P.O. Box 805

Dixfield, ME 04224

(207) 562-8838 <tel:(207)%20562-8838> 

peggy.malley at ludden.lib.me.us <mailto:peggy.malley at ludden.lib.me.us> 

 

 

 

From: minervacats-bounces at informe.org <mailto:minervacats-bounces at informe.org>  [mailto:minervacats-bounces at informe.org] On Behalf Of Deborah Tomaras
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2017 12:21 PM
To: minervacats at informe.org <mailto:minervacats at informe.org> 
Subject: [MinervaCats] FW: {Disarmed} RE: A Wonderfully Weird Wonder Woman suggestion

 

Here’s another vote in favor of suppressing on-order records for a/v items, from Sandra Abbott-Stout at Unity (see below, with her kind permission to forward to the list!). 

 

Any other ideas about how we might help out the circ/reference folks with the holds issue? Is there a way, for example, that we could somehow coordinate the cataloging of different formats between us (inter-library heads-up), so that different bib records appear in the catalog closer together, so patrons might spread the holds around? Or other creative solutions? :}

 

Keep the ideas coming! I’m sure we can work this out.

 

Best,

Deborah

 

From: Sandra Abbott-Stout [mailto:sstout at unity.edu] 
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2017 10:56 AM
To: Deborah Tomaras <dtomaras at patten.lib.me.us <mailto:dtomaras at patten.lib.me.us> >
Subject: {Disarmed} RE: [MinervaCats] A Wonderfully Weird Wonder Woman suggestion

 

Suppressing the on-order record makes a lot of sense to me.  Personally, I don’t have time to catalog it on the incorrect record [and it just seems wrong] and then try to remember to re-catalog it some months later.

 

Sandra

 

Sandra Abbott-Stout

Reference/Instruction Librarian

Dorothy Webb Quimby Library

Unity College

Unity, ME 04988

 

207-509-7234 <tel:(207)%20509-7234>  [phone]

207-512-1218 <tel:(207)%20512-1218>  [fax]

 

From: minervacats-bounces at informe.org <mailto:minervacats-bounces at informe.org>  [mailto:minervacats-bounces at informe.org] On Behalf Of Deborah Tomaras
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2017 9:47 AM
To: 'Josh Tiffany' <jtiffany at gray.lib.me.us <mailto:jtiffany at gray.lib.me.us> >; minervacats at lists.maine.gov <mailto:minervacats at lists.maine.gov> 
Subject: Re: [MinervaCats] A Wonderfully Weird Wonder Woman suggestion

 

Josh and all:

 

The point appears to be moot now, since Wonder Woman now has Blu-Ray and single DVD records in the catalog.

 

But I wonder if for the future, since this issue comes up a lot, a better answer is to NOT make on-order records for movies. Or, if they have to be made for acquisitions purposes, to suppress them from public view until the items actually come in. Since, as Josh points out, movies often come in multiple formats and combinations and therefore get multiple bib records in the catalog (unlike the books we make on-order records for), perhaps we are doing patrons a disservice by creating on-order records that will get piles of holds when other bib records for alternate formats will appear later and perhaps not be found (and the holds not spread around in an equitable manner). I think unless we stop making on-order records for movies, this problem of holds on a single bib record likely won’t be resolved.

 

It’s something to consider, at least, since I don’t think it’s viable to put all dissimilar copies of movies on a single generic bib record--cataloging exists to correctly describe items for patrons, so fudging all copies together doesn’t sit right with me. And there is likely to be at least one patron that REALLY wants a distinct copy, and not just to watch the movie. And also, with time pressures on tech services staff, many of which are part-time and/or work at service desks, cataloging a single item multiple times isn’t really feasible.

 

What do people think?

Best,

 

 <http://www.patten.lib.me.us/> Deborah Tomaras | Head of Technical Services
207.443.5141 x14 <tel:207.443.5141%20x14>  |  <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.patten.lib.me.us%2F&data=01%7C01%7Csstout%40unity.edu%7Ce10f05409cc64448774e08d500fbfdef%7Ca5df695b72854f398c84d1c50676d682%7C1&sdata=oBRWdjrdfzhPHz7jqIFQXjFL0w9EXC9H1cobJONyHPo%3D&reserved=0> MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com" claiming to be www.patten.lib.me.us

33 Summer Street, Bath ME 04530

 

 

 

From: minervacats-bounces at informe.org <mailto:minervacats-bounces at informe.org>  [mailto:minervacats-bounces at informe.org] On Behalf Of Josh Tiffany
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2017 1:14 PM
To: minervacats at lists.maine.gov <mailto:minervacats at lists.maine.gov> 
Subject: [MinervaCats] A Wonderfully Weird Wonder Woman suggestion

 

Greetings again,

 

In regards to the just released “Wonder Woman” (2017) release, I’m going to suggest something a wee bit heretical in the cataloging universe.

 

As it stands now, a pre-order record was put in the system in mid-August.  At this point, there are almost 70 people lined up waiting for their chance to check out the film.  However, there are multiple releases and editions of the regular DVD copy (2-disc edition, single disc split from the Blu-ray / DVD combo pack, and a rental edition are known at this point… but there may be more). 

 

To best suit the needs of the patrons, plus to reduce the confusion around this item (there are already three copies of the Wonder Woman animated feature released in 2017, one of which suddenly had more than a dozen holds placed on it in the last three weeks), I’m suggesting that, for the time being, all DVD copies of the Patty Jenkins 2017 film “Wonder Woman” be placed on the same record that already exists and has 68 holds.  Included in this record would be the note “May include bonus DVD”.  Once the groundswell of interest in the item has been satisfied, libraries can re-catalog the item based on the exact data.

 

The hope is that by combining the various items, the users will be able to get copies faster and won’t have to play the guessing game of which version of the film may arrive faster.  Additionally, patrons who put in request on the pre-pub item won’t be left waiting if their home library picks up a 2-disc copy.  It is my guess and experience that the list of people who have already requested the movie wouldn’t care if it is the 2-disc, single disc, rental edition, to Taiwanese bootleg copy – they just want to see it.  

 

I’m hoping this suggestion is worth a moment of consideration.  

 

Thanks ,

 

Josh

 

Joshua Tiffany, MLIS

Director – Gray Public Library

(207) 657-4110 <tel:(207)%20657-4110> 

jtiffany at gray.lib.me.us <mailto:jtiffany at gray.lib.me.us> 

 

“A library implies an act of faith.”– Victor Hugo

  _____  

This electronic mail message and any attachments hereto, as well as any electronic mail message(s) that may be sent in response to it, may be considered public records, and may therefore be subject to public record requests for review and copying under Maine's Right to Know Law (Title 1, 401-521 of the Maine Revised Statutes).

 

 


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Southern Maine Community College
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Phone: 207-741-5784 <tel:(207)%20741-5784> 

 <http://www.smccme.edu/> ​

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